Congressman Barney Frank (D-MA) clearly doesn’t. This exchange with a woman at a townhall meeting in his district is classic. She compares President Obama’s plan to make health care more affordable to the Nazi’s – and amen to Mr. Frank, he actually responds with what should be responded to a question like that. Check it out for yourself:
Having a reasonable debate about this important issue is a good thing, it’s downright American – but I have to agree with the Congressman on this one, comparing the President to Nazi’s is a cheap shot and doesn’t allow for any meaningful debate.
Find out what’s really going on with the health care debate. This affects all of us, especially us younger folks, and I for one want to see a debate that is honest and allows us to come up with the best solution.
~Mary, Rock the Vote
Tags: Barney Frank, health care, Town Hall
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Mary Bio: @Rockthevote Email the author at: blog(at)rockthevote.com |
When debating against a position, even one that you believe is morally unjust, it’s best not to simply belittle your opponent but properly point out why, in your opinion, their position is indefensible. Of course, I haven’t heard a single Democrat that has been willing to sell this plan, only repeat the now debunked White House talking points or, like Congressman Frank did here, call the opposition names and claim they can’t have a proper discussion with them. I would expect better from a Congressman, instead we see him delving into school yard rhetoric, “I’m rubber and you’re glue.”
Quite the statesman.
Et tu, Rock the Vote team? You have compromised your credibility by pushing the health care agenda. State the facts without propagandizing your personal point of view. That is what you set out to do. Now you’ve swayed from the path you once promised to uphold. Anonymous.
Had the congressman refrained from name-calling, his credibility would have been greatly enhanced, and his argument made stronger. However, instead of taking the high road and pointing out why this plan is the polar opposite of what we saw with Hitler’s regime , he stepped down to the same level and lost his opportunity. I would have loved to have heard his argument. As it stands, with all of the end-of-life options and abortion amendments being tossed around, it seems that he didn’t have a leg to stand on.
These people didn’t arrive at their position through reason, so there is no evidence that reason will change their minds. Ship them off to a “Free speech zone” and let the adults figure out how to solve the problem.
don’t ask me to share your view in this. and don;t expect everyone here to agree with you! this universal healthcare is taking us closer to a road we really don’t want to be on…
Personally, I think the crippling debt this country is in has filtered down to the citizens in the form of accrued interest on loans (student loans, mortgages, car loans, etc..), and this administration has done nothing but encourage people to get further into debt each step of the way.
Soon, our chickens will come home to roost in the financial market. The dollar is already headed towards being displaced by the Euro in international markets, and once that happens, all this uncontrolled spending will implode on itself. I guess this is why demand for gold and silver are increasing so much.
The problem is that most people who are against national health care already have health insurance. What about those of us who don’t? CNN reported that 86.7 million Americans went without health insurance in 2007 and 2008. President Obama and other proponents of national policy have addressed the question ad nauseum: “If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan.” This plan is for the have-nots. We have government run welfare programs so that families living at the poverty level can eat. Why can’t we put forth an initiative to care for the uninsured? Health care is and should be as important as feeding the hungry. Both are potentially life sustaining.
Doug says – “This plan is for the have-nots. We have government run welfare programs so that families living at the poverty level can eat. Why can’t we put forth an initiative to care for the uninsured? Health care is and should be as important as feeding the hungry. Both are potentially life sustaining”
There is an initiative – it’s called Medi-Cal and it is run by the government for people that cannot afford their own and/or are at poverty level – and if you are not at poverty level there are low cost health clinics all over the US where you pay as much as you can afford based on your income level.
Take a look at healthcare in other countries around the world and ours will start looking pretty darn good.
The best way to “start” lowering health costs is to get rid of frivolous lawsuits that drive up insurance costs on the doctors. I believe there should be some sort of non-biased panel that reviews potential lawsuits for merit. If there is merit, the panel approves the plaintiff to go forward with the lawsuit – however, if there is no merit, no lawsuit is filed. That would save the insurance companies the time and major expense it costs to defend these frivolous lawsuits – not to mention freeing up the courts for other matters.
No matter what site I go on I find that we are so far apart. This health care reform should be tossed out. This is not the time for the country to be spending more money when we have none to spend. You think health care is the issue alone? NO. Obama is a big part of the problem with most Americans not trusting him. He has lost control and Americans see he is a campaigner and not a salesman. There is a major problem and while you can be pro Obama please remember that half the country is not feeling the same way. Ramming health care down our throats seems to me to be taking my right to choose away. Young people are also starting to realize the disappointment in who they voted for. The more Obama pushes this, the more he fails.
The town hall screaming is all red herring — especially since we now know that insurance companies are instructing corporate employees to attend town halls. Think of it this way: for a public option to be worse than the insurance companies we have now, it would not only have to waste more resources than the insurance companies do, it would have to waste more than the insurance companies intentionally take from our health care dollars in the form of profits — and they are very profitable enterprises, which is why they’re fighting the public option so hard.
The US government subsidizes food, housing, water, and electricity (see what happened during power deregulation in California) — we all agree that we need to work together on the things that are most vital to us — health care is one of those things.
publicoption.blogspot.com!
I agree that the woman’s comments are ridiculous and counterproductive – she is clearly upset and/or confused and reasonably lacking trust about the whole health reform issue, and doesn’t know how to express it. But her state of mind is not without precedent, so it would go some measure to address her beyond comparing her to a dining room table. When I say her position is not without precedence I am referring to statements by others at such forums where they shout down the speaker entirely (whether or not they storm them from the stage or not) or compare someone to Satan (who one could reasonably argue is a tad more evil and powerful than even Hitler). Given this, I am not sure why Barney Frank had forgotten about that sort of thing and lacked all sympathy with her frustration.
What someone should do is ask how anyone can sign a bill they haven’t read completely (and understood). Since both congressmen (well, most) and concerned citizens have not read the bill completely, it is no wonder there is fear and mistrust – fear of the unknown. We’ve all been brought up “never sign anything without reading it first.” Why should we make a special case here? How can the public be assured that some lost sentence on page 982 doesn’t come back to collectively bite them, but which their state representatives obliviously signed into LAW? The mistrust is readily understood – not just in partisan terms, but in recent history. Banks and auto companies were bailed out to the tune of billions on their taxed pocketbook and – the result? We are still in a recession, CEO’s of failing companies continued to receive million $ bonuses, and banks continue to be reluctant in granting loans, increasing savings interest rates, and reducing foreclosures. Are we supposed to just say “well, that didn’t work” while the bill is yet to appear in our mail?
Barney Frank may say he is arguing with a table, but what can the woman say she is arguing with id she asks him a question to something pertaining to a passage that appears on a page in the bill he happened not to read, but decided to pretend he knew the answer to and answer anyway?
Hi, James.
You make a really common-sensical argument, but it’s a bit naive. Nobody (and by this, I mean no one individual person) reads every word of each bill that passes Congress. The work is distributed among an army of staffers and office personnel.
It’d be great if Congressmen read the full text of every bill, but they wouldn’t have time to sleep, eat, caucus, kiss babies, etc. If we only support government bills that our congressmen have read in full, we wouldn’t have had a federal budget for the last sixty years — 2008′s budget was 2,200 pages.
‘….but I have to agree with the Congressman on this one, comparing the President to Nazi’s is a cheap shot and doesn’t allow for any meaningful debate.’
Calling his constituent a table doesn’t allow for meaningful debate either. It works both ways Mary. Quit being a hypocrite. Rep. Frank acted like a spoiled BRAT at his town hall!
What can you expect from a blustery fool that has no other retort than to get more blustery and foolish?
I hope that the example that he is showing the nation gets him booted from office. I can’t believe that he would belittle someone in his townhall meeting instead of being calm and reassuring. What type of a person actually would vote for such a selfish and childish candidate?
There will be repercussions coming for such behavior in the upcoming elections.
I’m going to assume “G. Elliott” and “J Barney” are the same person, because, well, this place seems lousy with astroturfers. Speaking of which, throwing around ‘hypocrite’ and ‘fool’ and ‘selfish’ and ‘childish’ doesn’t make you look like much of an adult yourself.
Although, weirdly enough, I get the feeling that you’re at least twice as old as the rest of us here. Irony, man. It never stops making me feel all tingly.