The government is us people; “We the People”. Isn’t that how our constitution reads at the beginning? We have to take back our government and hold ourselves accountable for how badly things have become in our society. There’s something to be said for “old fashion” ways. There’s something to be proud of a little known thing called “tradition”. There is also something to be learned from all of the heated discussion here. I think we all care about what is happening in the here and now. I think (and this is only my opinion) we need to take the word “CARE” in “Health Care” and apply it here. Everyone in this country (born here or not) is entitled to world class medical care or attention if they need it. However, with that being said, I agree that there should be some sort of proof positive test that the person being treated is actually “entitled” to a U.S. discount or whatever or however it comes about in cost. Too much of the American tax payer dollars are wasted on those that don’t “CARE”(Constitutionally American Run Entitlements) about us “We the People”. I don’t have the answer to how this can be done, maybe one way is to patch them up, and if they’re illegal have their government pay for the bill or come pick them up on their dime; or reduce our deficit with that nation.

We are Americans, we can do anything, we are “World Class” citizens and yes some of us are even a–holes. But it’s because we live in such a great country that we are allowed to think outside the box and come up with great ideas and solutions.

Health Care Reform is not a color topic or an affluent topic. It’s about “Health”; and if you don’t have that you won’t have either because no one will be around to propagate either.

There has got to be a way to develop our Health Care reform derived from some of the ideas of those countries that do have Universal Health Care Coverage but making it American. That’s what America does. We take whats best from those that have come before us and make an American product and we’ll have “CARE”. But it is up to each of us to reach out to each other in a civil manner and stop getting off point and do what is right for each of us, our families and future generations in this country.

I don’t have any great quotes or statistics, all I have is common sense and an over whelming big heart to care about each of you in this discussion to believe that we all know something must be done; and unless we take back what is rightfully ours with civility and the burning desire to get America back on track with “We the People”, there won’t be an America in the future; at least not one that any of us will remember.

Thanks for hearing me out.

muggers robbers and rapists say “we want money, possessions and sex and so we take them”

nobody’s holding you up for health benefits punk. if they did, I’m pretty sure we’d have them already. instead, we voted fair and square for a liberal majority, got out on the streets, and big-money free industry bought themselves a roadblock with blood money

and if you wonder why I keep talking about race, ask yourself why you equate wealth-redistribution liberals with rapists. just think for a minute with your whole brain about your nice white paycheck and all those brown fingers trying to get a little piece. sound familiar? scare you? you’d prefer a world where we practice “me for mine”? unrestricted free market in a world where white people own the vast majority of usable capital? Convenient!! slavery? illegals in sweatshops? where in the world do you think your money comes from? no worries, just pray at the altar of the invisible hand, and if that causes a spike in infant death among the underclasses, then amen.

i think if we had members of the house who believed that aspies were all useless drains on public resources, and if insurance companies denied your claims for aspie aspirin, you’d switch parties in a second and you’d be all like that’s so unfair please I need the government to protect me

or maybe you’d just hit your communicator and beam right back up from where you came from

In your own words, “if we want benefits we have to take them.” As I previously stated, I believe muggers, robbers, and rapists hold this philosophy as well.

more available is not available. you don’t care about available. your ideology about small-government and free markets trumps your care for people, because it only takes one generation of cushy, government-protected and people-enforced union benefits to give a guy this feeling that he’s ‘worked his butt off’. You didn’t. People in this country literally work themselves to the point where they can’t sit down or bend their knees. Your summer job or whatever in a hot factory, is whatever. I am abundantly sure you’re kicking back in an air conditioned office right now thinking, man, free-market capitalism is GREAT. if I didn’t have to share with brown people, i could get even more cool stuff.

See how far unions would’ve got without the US government protecting them. Private enterprise at work my ass. There are still companies out there unionbusting and forbidding legal association and illegally replacing union workers with undocumented laborers who have no rights and can be completely abused. ask adam. unions are not free competition. they made ayn rand sick to her stomach. if you didn’t have a government willing to beat down industry thugs, you’d have no union at all

the UAW you are so ecstatic about supports the public option.

And I still don’t see you lifting a goddamn finger. If you got your education to help people, why are you in here crapping all over the only significant health care reform in the last ten years? where’s the “J Plan?” What are you doing to make a change except whine about other people being racists and sniffle about your tin-hat libertarianism not getting a fair shake?

show me where you’re fighting for change identify its positive qualities point us to its location and let us join in.

because what you’re doing here sounds like hypocritical republican obstructionism. your ‘read the bill’ stuff is straight out of a town hall tantrum

you were right about the execution, though. I saw a black and white picture and thought that, like 50 percent of Americans on death row, he was an African-American. fact remains, you would not trade races with a non-white person for any reason. less money more danger less representation and then you’d have people on message boards being like ‘man I worked my butt off at cornell (all-nighters, dude!) to get this IT job so i could wreck the welfare system and turn you cats out but don’t disagree with me because that’s reverse racism!’

I did look it up.

First, he was not black. He was white. Here is a link to a picture of him in the Chicago Tribune. However, that makes absolutely no difference to me. Again, I state that RACE HAS NO RELEVANCE TO ME.

http://tinyurl.com/Cameron-Todd-Willingham

Next, I am 100% against the death penalty – for any reason. I do not believe we can EVER be 100% certain about a person’s guilt. If there is even a fraction of 1% question, then I do not believe the person should be executed. Locked up for life — yes! But executed – NEVER. If future developments, new evidence, or advances in science exhonorate a person in prison they can be released. Dead is permanent. I support any government reform that eliminates the death penalty.

Lastly, the death penalty has nothing to do with whether or not HR 3200 is right for America. Health care and how we can make health care and health insurance more affordable for everyone is the subject at hand. At least I thought it was.

—————–

“your rights? 11 million children are uninsured and I don’t see you lifting a goddamn finger, but then you wouldn’t because you don’t give a flying one about…”

For starters, your language is offensive.

I have demonstrated to you how the current government regulation (a violation of the Interstate Commerce Clause of the Constitution) prevents you and me from purchasing health care across state lines. If we were able to do so, insurers would be forced to compete for customers and that would drive down the price of coverage. Yes, the insurance companies are interested in profit. Their shareholders demand it. That is why they will lower their prices in the face of fierce competition for customers. They do not want to loose customers and will lower prices to keep them because some profit is better than no profit. It is government regulation that is preventing competition and driving prices up.

I have also demonstrated to you how current government regulation preventing groups of people from banding together to demand better pricing is an unconstitutional violation of the First Amendment. Labor unions, such as the UAW or the IBEW, or many others join workers together to demand better working conditions and better pay. Why can we, as health care consumers, not form a “Health Care Consumer’s Union” and demand better pricing by being allowed to purchase group policies?

These are both reforms for which I am fighting and, I sincerely believe, both will lower insurance costs and make insurance coverage more available to you, to me, and to the Hispanic child with hearing loss to whom you referred.

—————–

“your rights? we insure the people in this country who sit at desks and shuffle papers, and leave people with callouses and backaches and 39 hour workweeks out in the cold…”

Yes, I know exactly what working people have to endure. From the 60 years my grandfather worked a his farm just trying to make ends meet. To my father, a former UAW factory worker, who is now disabled and is just trying to survive. To my mother who spent 30 years working 60 hours a week in retail sales. I, personally, know what it is like to work when the temperature in the factory is 120 degrees. That is why I worked my butt off to get an education and have have dedicated myself to trying to make things better – for everyone.

I believe in less government interference. Government interference, as I demonstrated above, causes people to not get the best deal possible. Unions are a perfect example of how NON-GOVERNMENT organizations of people can band together to get better conditions. Not saying unions are perfect, they are not, but they are private enterprise at work.

As we become more of a freelance culture, more and more people are working multiple jobs instead of the classic 40-hour desk job. Young people are much more likely to fit this discription. Our current benefits system does us a real disservice by marrying benefits to full-time employment. Real health care reform would divorce insurance from the workplace. Businesses don’t want to be health plan administrators. They want to put their resources into making pet rocks or whatever. Stop tax-favoring workplace group plans over individual plans and the 20-something working 2 jobs with an internet business on the side would be able to buy his own portable coverage. Such a pro-entrepreneur policy would result in an explosion of small businesses. Contrast that with the tax penalties for businesses in the current proposal.

Allow cross-border competition so out of state insurers can undercut each other on premiums and expand their risk pools. Reform the broken medical malpractice system to drive down the spiraling costs of care (it is the actual costs of medical care that account for the exponential increase in heath care premiums, not the profits of insurance companies as Rock the Vote suggests on this website).

Empower individuals or expand the welfare state? It’s an easy choice for me.

But some may not realize that piznim’s views and those expressed by Thomas (the RTV staffer who started this post) are essentially the same. They both seek to devalue people with whom they disagree by an appeal to racist and age-ist arguments – they don’t look like us, so no reason to listen to their opinions.

Here’s a novel idea: try listening to the arguments of the people that oppose the current health bills. Ask yourself why the media and the Democratic backers of the bills are scared sh–less of the citizens showing up to voice their opinions, and why they constantly try to marginalize them and equate them the the “death panel” kooks. It is because most of them are intelligent, well informed, and (egads!) understand the economic ramifications of this huge entitlement program. Some of them have actually read the bill, which puts most congressmen at a distinct disadvantage. Democrats and their media allies are afraid of these people because they cannot control them with their usual generalizations, platitudes, and outright misrepresentations.

Whether you ultimately agree or disagree with the protesters, give them the respect of listening to their viewpoint. Don’t dismiss them out of hand as Thomas seems to suggest.

This is a small detail, but I think it’s important: the public option, if it passes, would be one of the only ways that unmarried women and men, gay and lesbian domestic partners, and people in nontraditional relationships would be able to get benefits without having to win coverage through their partner’s employer. My employer currently gives benefits to long term same-sex partners, but all too many don’t. By being purchasable by individuals — so you could have one partner who worked and paid for two policies worth of public option insurance, and one partner who raises children/is a homemaker/doesn’t work for any reason but still gets insured — thousands of same-sex relationships and child-rearing relationships would become vastly more equitable and more fair.

Just food for thought.

So, having not read it for yourself, you are depending on others to tell you what is and is not in the bill. Some will tell you the truth. Some will lie. But how will you know the difference unless you read it for yourself?

That is why I am working on reading the whole thing for myself. I want to know, for sure, if what I am hearing is fact of fiction. I want to be able to make an informed decision.

Here is the link to the bill (page numbers included)
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

Conversely, if the government didn’t have a cap on how many hours you could work, your employer may just give you more, thus boosting your paycheck. In addition, if the government didn’t take Social Security Taxes and Medicare Taxes, you would have even more money in your paycheck.

You said, “if we want benefits we have to take them.” I believe muggers, robbers, and rapists hold that philosophy as well. You are in good company.