A new poll from the Pew Center shows support for private accounts among young people has plummeted recently. (Ahem…ahem…)
To quote the Pew Center, “In particular, people under age 30 who have heard a lot about the proposal are more than twice as likely as their less engaged peers to oppose the idea (45% vs.19%).”
So: the more young people hear about privatization, the less they like it. Hmm…sounds familiar! Oh, let’s see: When young people learn about the cuts, debt and risk that comes with private accounts—and the pro-privatization politicians can’t hide it forever—they’re like, don’t even try it!
It is a recipe for a political backlash. Long assumed as the only demographic that would support private accounts, when young people turn on them, its ovah.
Now, “support for private accounts” is a finicky number you have to watch carefully, since the point is not so much private accounts as much as what it takes to get them: cuts, debt, and risk. But the big point here is that the young people who are more educated and more engaged—a.k.a., the cool kids, the influencers—are more opposed.
The Associated Press story about the poll is below. The political backlash is forthcoming.
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Rock the Vote Bio: Rock the Vote was founded in 1990 to organize artists and fight against censorship of musicians. Since then we've evolved to focus on empowering young people to get involved in the political process. We use pop culture, peer-to-peer organizing, and the latest technology to raise visibility of politics and demystify the process of registering to vote. @rockthevote Email the author at: blog(at)rockthevote.com |
Well, it’s been great to see that Noid and Redgar have joined in the battle against the beautiful and increasingly wrong, left-winged, Green party nad-licking, Rock The Vote charlatans. And even better to see non-Bureaucrash members joining in the fight to disenfranchise this little know-nothing, mis-information jerks! I believe I am truly seeing the revolution right here, and for once, Thank Milton, its not COMMUNISTS! It’s just the opposite! So lovely to see all you intelligent and active young people getting into the fight against the “cool kids” and their “bottled for market Socialism”. Love you all!
– The Liberty Chooser
joe dime:
do you realize I’m on your side. The challenge was to Rock the Vote and they still haven’t accepted.
I found it humorous when rock the vote pretended to be non partisan in the lead up to the election. I only hope that now that rock the vote’s true political orientation is out in the open it will fail in it’s quest to stop privatization(why should we allow people to invest their own hard earned money when we can all feel good and paternalistic about ourselves by doing it for them right?) much in the same way it failed to mobilize america’s youth in november. keep up the good work guys
It is absolutely ridiculous that rock the vote does not support private accounts. They state that young people are worried about having to pay for their own retirement. Other than the fact that YOU should have to pay for your own retirement, what do you think we have been doing for the past 50 years? Paying for someone elses retirement. 2nd–to IMTHEAMERICANDREAM–you are a socialist, plain and simple. Cato.org is so far from a right wing group it isn’t funny and you are just like this website, using scare tactics to support an agenda? What is that agenda? I honestly don’t know, bigger government I guess. I for one work hard for my money and I don’t want to give it to anyone, I personally could care less about YOUR retirement or anyone at RTV.
I have to say…its awesome to see people posting on here who are actually educated about how bad the current SS system is. I was worried when I visited this blog that it would be just more liberal tripe about how benefits are guaranteed (which they certainly are not). I certainly was not surprised to see RTV opposing privitization. Thanks to those who are posting rebuttals to that position and giving the real facts.
I’m still waiting to hear whether RTV is accepting money from AARP.
It just cracks me up that you kids can’t see the forest for the trees. SS is a Ponzi scheme and the AARP is the Amway Diamond bringing RTV to their seminars so they can brainwash you into signing up and funding their retirement.
The government has screwed up almost everything it has touched – Medicare, Medicaid, the Military, Social Security – even the core of the goverment itself. And you want to trust it with the money you will be dependent on to survive when you retire??!! Incredible.
Ask your Grandparents if they are able to live a good life on their current SS payments alone. Now, it’s going to get worse. And that’s what you’re fighting for? LOL!!
Stop being sheep, take an economics class and realize that funding your own retirement works for everyone except those who DON’T work and can’t manage to put money in the bank instead of buying spinners for the Escalade.
I’m glad I won’t have to depend on SS when I retire and I really feel sorry for you who do.
The rantings of the authors are idiotic. If you are so ignorant as to think that our generation is going to receive any benefits with the current system then you have been swallowing a lie.
R. Edgar has it right. 4% isn’t enough for my greedy self, but we have to support the current and upcoming retirees as is our reponsibility. How about we cut HUD, the Dept of Education, the IRS (institute the fairtax) and the whole problem goes away.
By they way, people who oppose individual choice are socialists.
Fact: Every time the government gets involved, it’s slower, more incorrect, more corrupt, and costs five times more.
Looks like all the cool kids aren’t as informed as they should be. The proposed private accounts are no different from your current 401K. Or don’t you have one of those. It’s not the risky stock market gambel it’s made out to be. Would you rather have 14% taken out of your paycheck and put into the general accounting fund (sorry, no such thing as a SS trust fund or a lock box)to be spent on government programs with no guarantee you’ll ever get it back and what you might get back with little or no return or have your money go into an investment account with your name on it that guarantees you a return far greater than SS could ever promise and guarantees you receive that return at retirement? It seems like a no brainer to me.
Look, this website and blog has put up some very disturbing and certainly misleading “factoids” as they’re called. The only lies out there are the ones I see posted on this site. Nothing will be taken away from anybody. Noone’s benefits will be cut at all. The system is comepletely voluntary. The only people who lose are the uninformed and misinformed “cool kids” who unknowingly miss out out on the opportunity of their lifetime.
imtheamericandream
you are an absolute moron! we all klnow that the SS is a bust! to fix it, lets NOT pay into it at all! i would love to keep my money for me. why do i have to pay for some one elses problem of being to damn lazy to get up and work to get paid! i work hard for MY money and i dont wnat to give it away to some one that did not work for it.
i know that you are gonna say that people all over this great country are working for their peice of the pie. if that is the case then why are we paying into this losing propsition? if they were working hard they would not get worked up about the SS stealing someones hard worked for income and pay it out to some one that did not care about their future way back in school. tough crap! it is not my fault that they did not think about it. dig a ditch and get paid, i will not and do not want to pay for these people!
Lets see, my private account managed by the same managed by government bureaucrats that managed SS into nothing?
Gee, what a great plan.
LoL. With the leaders of both parties belonging to the same coven. I feel pitty for those who belive that any of this has the slighest meaning. they are heirs to Hassan I Sabbah. Sit back and enjoy the show. you live in interesting times.
Slack be yours.
Bob Dobbs
This is ridiculous. The “cool kids” are being misinformed in order to support your liberal agenda. After all, once people, and NOT the gov’t are in control of their OWN money, a HUGE threat will disappear. You won’t be able to use the hollow threat that conservatives want to “take away your social security”. Why? Because it’s YOURS. You sicken me.
Let’s look at two options.
One: The government forcefully takes my money. It is pilfered as it goes through layers of bureaucracy. Eventually, some of it makes it to the hands of people who may or may not have a genuine need for it.
Two: I invest my own money. Using the return on that investment, I support myself and give the rest to those who have real need. Not only do I know exactly who the money is going to, but since I actually know the recipient, I can provide non-financial care as well.
The first option is stealing. The second is charity.
The first option benefits career bureaucrats and those with enough political connections to receive the handouts at the end of the line, while stealing from working people.
The second option benefits working people and those in true need, while stealing from no person.
Seems like a clear cut decision to me.
I thought this RTV compaign was a joke when I heard it on the radio. T-Shirts that say “I love Social Security.” They might as well buy a t-shirt that says “I don’t give a crap about my future.”
And for RTV to be teaming up with the AARP, for goodness sake. What is going on here. It sure is reassuring to hear everyone not falling for this spin.
I don’t know about you guys, but “all the cool kids” in my school were not really the people I would rely on for financial advice, maybe where to get wasted on the weekend and pick-up chicks.
SS is about the biggest scame the government has envoked on its citizenry. It started off noble, but has now turned into a vote buying scheme. If politicians were really worried about my future and everyone elses, they wouldn’t be spending the money coming in for social security like drunken sailors. They don’t care about what’s best for us.
This is America. We need to take our future back, and rely on ourselves to provide for our families. That is this country was started and became so great. Take responsibility and ownership.
Good luck
The Rock the Vote website says that social security is “guaranteed”. What a crock. Anybody who does their homework knows this is an outright lie.
I would much rather depend on my own skills and investments for my retirement than ANY government guarantee.
r. edgar musta had a typo. Fool is a better fit don’t ya think?
Why is it that so many people assume that the stock market is this high-risk venture where everyone but the incredibly lucky lose their shirt? That is such nonsense.
Sure, there are bad stocks, but through diversification, that’s not a problem. As previously stated, there is no better return for your money than the stock market.
And anyone with a 401(k) knows that there are GUARANTEED funds that pay a certain rate that is lower than the market average but a heck of a lot higher than the return on Social Security. If you could even get 4-5% per year on your money, you’s make *far more* than in Social Security, and it’s a guaranteed fund!! It’s not Enron, for goodness sakes!
It’s amazing that the left complains about falling wages in this country, but when it is suggested to index SS benefits to inflation rather than wages, the left goes through the roof. The only explanation is that wages aren’t actually falling…
And that’s the “cut in benefits”: index to inflation rather than wages. It’s not a cut, merely a decrease in the growth rate of benefits ever year,
SS was always meant to be SUPPLEMENTAL income, not all of your retirement income.
The proper Title for this post would be “all the lazy, irresponsible kids oppose privatization.” Then it could go on to describe how if you’re lazy and irresponsible, you would naturally oppose anyone else being able to control their future and have a comfortable retirement because it would just thrust your laziness and irresponsibility into the spotlight.
Don’t let politicians control your retirement. Don’t let them screw you over like they’ve screwed over my grandparents.
Urge your representatives to get rid of social security completely so you can receive your entire paycheck. Opting for personal accounts is a start, but it is a far cry from allowing America’s youth the freedom to choose our future.
So if the privatization of accounts is such a bad idea why did it work in Galvestan, TX so well? Why is it working in Chile so well?
I can’t understand why RTV would be against giving power and choice to the people the say they represent. Why would they not want to help secure the future of their supporters.
It is apparent to me that they are not against the program as much as you are against the people pushing the program. That is a sad way to determine the views of an organization.
I keep reading people saying that SS is not a crisis. I disagree with this. The SS system will begin to collapse when when the current younger workers begin to retire. You would think that for RTV this would be a crisis issue. Do you wait till it fails to address it or is it more prudent to address it now?
In reference to the poster that stated
“We learned a lesson from the Great Depression: the stock market and Keynesian economics are not infallible. So, we created the safety net of Social Security.”
Keynesian economics is what Roosevelt did to try and end the Great Depression. FDR instituted a number of government programs that pumped billions of dollars into the economy to get it out of the depression. That is the cornerstone of Keynesiam economics: government intervention in economic matters to keep the economy stable. The problem with Keynesian economics is that eventually someone has to pay the bill.
In reference to Social Security, FDR himself stated in a letter that he wanted to see personal accounts within the social security set up. Only FDR wanted thought that privitized accounts would be started in the 1950s, 1960s at the latest, instead of now.
I HATE Social Security. It’s a giant scam that steals my money and allows politicians to spend it. Old people get benefits IF the government gets enough revenues to pay them. By the time, I retire, there will be nothing left because politicians will have spent all the money.
The “cool” kids must be a bunch of retards. They actually think Social Security is going to help them when they’re old. Instead, they will freeze and starve to death.
Rock the Vote is about as “non-partisan” as MoveOn.org – a thinly veiled front for the liberal fringe. Their claims of impartiality are hilarious.
It’s ashame “all” of the “cool” kids oppose the privatization of social security. I would love to be able to control the money I earn and not have the government spend it on whatever they want. the money I have been putting in for 35 years is no longer there. When I die, my children will not be able to get any of it (if they are over 18). What is wrong with controlling the $$ you work so hard for. I know I can invest my money smarter than the government. Someday the “cool kids” will wish they had taken control of their future when they had the chance. Good luck
If a private company was trying to sell people a scam like the current Social Security program, the government would have already stepped in, closed them down and hauled somebody off to jail.
How about a third option? http://www.fairtax.org. With the fair tax, social security would be totally funded while I get to keep MY entire paycheck. Just think, you get to keep everything you earn while getting a check from the gov’t each month to pay for the tax on basic nessessities.
http://www.fairtax.org
“All the cool kids.” Probably because all the “cool kids” get all of their “cool news” from swill like this site. Not much for objectivity here, are we? Where are the “I Love Social Security Reform” t-shirts? Why doesn’t your poll actually ask what people think about reform instead of just asking where they heard about it?
i just got my benefits statement from SSA. over the ten years of my working life, they’ve STOLEN more than $20,000 from me. if i had that money in a savings account, and never added another dime to it, i’d have more money when i retire than if i continue on in the ss program. not to mention that they’ll take at least another $40,000 over the next 40 years. FU rock the vote & FU social security. U. S. OUT OF MY PAYCHECK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No one is talking about privatization, its personalization. Those advocating personal accounts are talking about giving workers under the age of 55 the OPTION of investing a portion of their payroll taxes into a personal account, about 1/3 of the total. Workers who CHOOSE to paticipate will have options of varying risk in which to invest their money. Thay can not take it and buy individual stocks. They can invest in things such as mutual funds, index funds, bonds, etc. So noone is going to get “hosed” because they put their money in enron or a company like that.
Now since the workers who wish to divert a portion of their taxes into a personal account pay less into the general fund, they will receive a guaranteed benefit that is 1/3 less than those who CHOOSE to remain in the “classical” social security system. However, those workers who invested in a personal account will have the money in their account to make up the difference and in most cases will receive larger monthly benefits than those who remained in the current system, and they will be able to leave to their heirs anything left in the account when they pass away.
This is a more modern and practical approach for younger workers, will provide investment opportunities for low income workers, and keeps the system as is for those over 55. Its a good approach. Look at all the facts objectively, and you’ll agree.
All for my own private account.
Rock the vote sucks!
Taken from the social security website http://www.ssa.gov/qa.htm:
Q.
I’m 25 years old. If nothing is done to change Social Security, what can I expect to receive in retirement benefits from the program?
A.
Unless changes are made, when you reach age 63 in 2042, benefits for all retirees could be cut by 27 percent and could continue to be reduced every year thereafter. If you lived to be 100 years old in 2079 (which will be more common by then), your scheduled benefits could be reduced by 33 percent from today’s scheduled levels. See the 2004 Trustees Report
I turn 25 this year and am excited in all I have to look forward to.
I’m in that 18-34 year old age bracket so this issue is important to me. Every 2 weeks I look at my check and money is taken out for social security, eventhough Im highly unlikely to recover any money from the system when I retire, and if I do it will be nowhere near the amount todays politicians say I will. Personal accounts give me the opportunity, with risks I am fully aware of, to at least try and get something out of the money I’m paying.
I decided it was time to take action, and was directed to an organization called Generations Together, http://www.generationstogether.net. They are leaders in the effort to make sure us young folk see some benefits from social security taxes, and that my parents are taken care of too. If you too want your money when you retire, http://www.generationstogether.net is worth a look.
Wow, looks like the libertarians are out in full force! Rant all you want about RTV being partisan, or Social Security being a nefarious plot to steal your money but NONE of you have addressed the fundamental issue of transition debt – trillions of dollars that I’m going to pay for in taxes; so basically my generation is saddled with the debt of your extreme laissez-faire business model. Yeah!, I get to pay for my retirement twice. Also, any of you ever heard of external costs?
Any of you concerned about our social fabric?
None of you have yet to propose an alternative to SS that:
1)honors our commitment to American workers, their survivors and the disabled
2)protects at least a minimum standard of living from the fluctuations of the market and corporate malfaesance; by all means risk the rest of your money but only above and beyond a safety net
3)doesn’t pass off trillions of dollars of “transitional costs” debt to my generation
4)disallows bankers and bureaucrats from playing with and/or profiting from my hard earned money at their leisure
…and yes, “Enronization” is a VERY REAL AND SCARY THING.
Oh, and Libertarians – lets hear you talk about getting rid of the minimum wage and we’ll see how attractive you really are to the young people of this country.
I agree that minimal governemental intervention in my life is a friggin great idea, but history has proved that we DO need some sort of organized counterpart to big business – if not govt, then who??
Please allow me to Fisk your post:
“Wow, looks like the libertarians are out in full force!”
I doubt that all these responders are libertarians.
“Rant all you want about RTV being partisan, or Social Security being a nefarious plot to steal your money but NONE of you have addressed the fundamental issue of transition debt – trillions of dollars that I’m going to pay for in taxes; so basically my generation is saddled with the debt of your extreme laissez-faire business model. Yeah!, I get to pay for my retirement twice. Also, any of you ever heard of external costs?”
The debt is exactly what we are worried about. Not only that, most of us are proposing to do something about it, rather than continuing the problem. Any time regulatory intervention is put in place to stave off economic problems, it only allows problem to grow worse with time, until it is finally addressed. The only way to resolve it is to let it work itself out early on. Unfortunately, this has gone on for so long that the collapse will be catastraphoic. However, prolonging it longer will only add to the problem minute by minute.
“Any of you concerned about our social fabric?”
Yep, so much that I think that people should care for each other, rather than sending checks from government offices after taking a cut off the top.
“None of you have yet to propose an alternative to SS that:”
While you have proposed no alternative whatsoever?
“1)honors our commitment to American workers, their survivors and the disabled”
Yes, they have: saving, investment, insurance, and charity.
“2)protects at least a minimum standard of living from the fluctuations of the market and corporate malfaesance; by all means risk the rest of your money but only above and beyond a safety net”
Regarding a “minimum standard of living,” who determines this standard? Second, once a standard of living has been established (presumably by God coming down and defining what each person requires to live, universally), how do you propose to “guarantee” it? Make sure that your answer does not include the use of violence to secure the product of someone’s work.
How do you guarantee that there will not be fluctuations and risk in ANY investment, even (and especially) ones controlled by the government? Corporate “malfeasance” should be protected through liabilities paid to the offended parties (and I mean “offended” in the real sense, not “had their feelings hurt”).
Please explain the “safety net.” I am assuming by “safety net” you mean insurance.
“3)doesn’t pass off trillions of dollars of “transitional costs” debt to my generation”
The scheme itself is designed to pass off debt. There is no getting around that. Someone will have to absorb it. You have two choices to pay off the debt: 1) people that are alive now, or 2) our descendants. As stated initially, the longer we delay it, the worse the debt will be. We cannot magically create wealth to abolish the transitional debt.
“4)disallows bankers and bureaucrats from playing with and/or profiting from my hard earned money at their leisure”
OK. Then stick your money under your mattress and buy a gun. If you cannot take a risk, you cannot make more money. It is as simple as that. Manage your risk, and invest where you think appropriate.
“…and yes, “Enronization” is a VERY REAL AND SCARY THING.”
Yes, it is.
“Oh, and Libertarians – lets hear you talk about getting rid of the minimum wage and we’ll see how attractive you really are to the young people of this country.”
I think we should abolish minimum wage. Have you noticed the same people who support minimum wage are the same people that decry “sweat shops” and outsourcing? Have you thought about the fact that people that take those cheaper jobs overseas because they would rather work and eat, rather than starving or living as a slave or child prostitute? What happened about worrying about ALL humankind, too, not just those in the USA?
“I agree that minimal governemental intervention in my life is a friggin great idea, but history has proved that we DO need some sort of organized counterpart to big business”
When did history prove this? Every example of long-term monopoly is tied to government involvement.
“if not govt, then who??”
The people who are strong-willed enough to get off their asses and do something about it, rather than whine for mommy and daddy government to do it for them. If you do not like a company, buy from a competitor. If a company has been fraudulent, sue them. If you think an organizations practices are heinous, organize a boycott.
Anything else?
I am on Social Security Disability, and I feel that privatization is a wonderful idea. After all, look at the success privatization of Social Security has in Chile as well as in a city or county in Texas. We need to get the government out of our pockets in regards to taking our hard-earned money from our paycheck. With that in mind, we need to tell our congressmen and senators to approve of President Bush’s Social Security Privatization plan as well as the Fair Tax Bill which Congressman Linder is pushing in the House.
There seems to be many assumptions on this blog. First, I do not have enough time for myself. I work more than seventy hours a week as a self-employed person. Secondly, I pay more in fuel tax alone than most people pay in income tax. It only irritates all that much more when my money is taken for a program that results in a return of less than two percent over the life of the account. Note, I said life of the account, not annually.
I’m really irritated when I go to homes of mortgage borrowers who plan so horribly for themselves they have nothing but debt for such things as expensive cars and big screen TVs. They plan for nothing through their life and continue to spend what they don’t have. It’s obvious they won’t save for retirement either. But, why should that be my problem? I’ll be responsible for myself, you be responsible for your own planning or failure to plan.
As for the poll quoted in USA Today, I’d like to see the actual questions asked. Further, the media is so biased against any conservative effort I cannot trust those younger people even understand what is currently being paid for and what will happen in the future regarding social security.
If private accounts are such a bad thing, what am I to make of the average return of 13% over the last fifteen years in my IRA and mutual fund accounts? Such a foolish move on my part? NOT!
S.S. is a scam and it is the worst of all lies. The whole system makes people dependant on government. What is wrong with me deciding what happens to 4% of MY money. It is mine, not yours, and not the governments to spend.
If your people at RTV really cared about people you would be working to end S.S. as we know it. Here is two examples which speek volumes against the current Ponzi scheem we have now, Chille and Gaviston, Texas. Google them and learn for yourself.
Answer to imtheamericandream
1)honors our commitment to American workers, their survivors and the disabled
I can’t think of any way better to honor the american workers, their survivors, and the disabled than by providing them a system where they actually recieve a benefit that allows them to live above the poverty level. A system that allows the survivors of a family member to keep all the money they paid into the system. A system that provides far superior disability insurance than the current system. Oh yeah, I guess your not talking about African American men who are workers because their avg. life expectancy is 65 years, and guess when they are eligible to collect their benefits, 65 1/2 years old. Oh well, screw them.
2)protects at least a minimum standard of living from the fluctuations of the market and corporate malfaesance; by all means risk the rest of your money but only above and beyond a safety net
All funds will be diversely invested to protect against the minority of business that involve themselves in malfaesance. There has NEVER been a ten year period in the stock market that hasn’t seen a significant rise. All investments will be insured
3)doesn’t pass off trillions of dollars of “transitional costs” debt to my generation
Yeah, lets wait until the problem is really uncontrollable and will cost 10s of trillions of dollars to resolve. I guess we found the only democrat who doesn’t like to spend tax payer money.
4)disallows bankers and bureaucrats from playing with and/or profiting from my hard earned money at their leisure
Yeah, I much rather politicians playing and profiting from my hard earned money at their leisure. If Enron was in charge of SS in its current state, you would be calling for their heads because of the mismanagement. What do you think is happening to your money that you are sending to Washington every month from your paycheck? Their spending it on everything but Social Security. Open the Social Security vault and watch out not to get smothered by all the little yellow I O U s that fall out. At least Private Businesses have gov’t looking over them. Who looks over the gov’t?
I like the part about, “trust us, there is more than enough money is washington to pay social security benefits for future generations”. It shows a total disregard for the taxpayer who is forced to continually supply his/her money to a political system that wastes so much of it. Your statement that Social Security has money is false. Please, for the benefit of all the “young people” of America, explain in detail where the money that is collected from every paycheck is at right now. What fund is it in? How much is in there? We should be able to see it, just like you would see how much money you have in a bank account or money market account. Or, if you are interested in educating people on what is happening with social security, tell them where they can read some historical congressional documents that explain exactly what our elected officials have been doing with the “promise” of a “safety net” for over 30 years.
HMMMMMM. Sounds like heavy reading and no one wants to do that so I will just say something catchy like, “All the cool kids oppose privatization”. The information is out there. Go find it people. This Social Security thing should have been fixed over 20 years ago but it was a “golden egg” laying goose.
Social Security is a glorified “Ponzi Scheme” that if run by the private sector the way the government runs it they’d be put in jail. Give us 14% of your income and when you get old we’ll give it back to you at about $1000 per month until you drop dead. Wow, what a neat investment vehicle I get to pay in around 2 million dollars and get back $360,000! What a bargain! Yeah, great idea Rock The Vote, don’t change a thing. Now, if I had invested that 2 million and earned oh say 5% I’d have The principle plus $100,000 per year income and what I don’t spend in my retirement my heirs would recieve after my death. What do they get from the current system now after I die??? Not a damn thing!
2 million may seem to be an arbitary figure pulled out of thin air, but not if you think about it. 14% of $50,000 of annual income for 45 years is equal to the amount of money stolen from you by Social Security as the system works now. This so-called employer matching is bullshit, if your employer didn’t have to pay the government that loot you’d get it instead.
Social Security is called the most sucessful government program. Yeah, right. Successful for Democrats to scare the “poly-grippers” into voting for them. There is no “Trust Fund”. Just a bunch of Treasury Bills which are no more valuable than the paper they’re printed on. These are nothing more than glorified IOUs.
It is telling in the way the democrats approach this problem. They continue to say there is no problem, the program is fine. They oppose Private Retirement Accounts because if you own the account they can’t scare you into voting them by telling you the rascally Republicans are going to take your precious government checks away.
Galveston, Texas escaped the Social Security system through an now closed loophole and their privately run retirement system pays their workers more per week at retirement than they got while working!
Private industry is where my money is invested because capitalism is the best way to create wealth. Government doesn’t create wealth, government steals your wealth and distributes it to others that don’t deserve it while taking their cut of course.
The time to get rid of Social Security is yesterday! Privatize It Now!
You have got to be kidding! Are you actually able to convince my peers/young people that someone else pays for their social security so that all they have to worry about is their retirement? More importantly, do YOU really believe that? Since the money comes out of their check before they ever see it whose money do they think that is under the “deduction” column on their pay check stub?
In response to intheamericandream, it would be great if all RTV was trying to say is that privatization in not going to solve the problem; that would make for a good debate. HOWEVER, “I heart Social Security” says something very different to me. The money is coming out of their checks NOW – and it will likely not come back to them when they retire. What is the answer? Certainly not more of the same!
One point to be made that I think most have forgotten…Back when Slick Willie was in office, private accounts were a good thing to the democrats and SS was in major crisis. Now, when Bush proposes EXACTLY the same idea, its a terrible idea, there is no crisis and the Democrats cry foul. Which is it going to be? You can’t have it both ways.
The problem with Social Security is that since it’s inception, the government has been stealing money from it… and instead of investing it, had taxed people to make up the difference.
The only way to STOP the government from stealing the money of the youth and giving it to the old people (that they previously stole from) is to institute a 100% private system.
While this is impossible without correcting the evils of the past evil congressional actions, the only alternative is to phase in private accounts so spend-happy legislatures will not do this again.
The Democrats and Republicans have both abandoned us (the youth of this country) by talking about privitizing only a VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE of social security, and ONLY UPON REQUEST – so they can continue to steal from the retirement funds of the youth and spend it on their stupid little programs which have nothing to do with the common security of all of the states.
The federal government is not a big pot of money – it is an institution which was created to protect the sovereignty of the individual states and protect the constitutional rights of the individuals in those states.
Everything else is optional.
We are doing our future children a great disservice by spending money at the federal level for programs that are bankrupting the retirement of the citizenry previously promised by past generations or place our union at risk by siphoning away money critical for our national defence.
And this opinion did not come from some conservative or liberal think tank… it is nothing more than the simple truth.
Hey Dream.
I can’t take your nonsense anymore. You keep posing the same question of whether there should be some guaranteed standard of living when you reach retirement. You even suggest that we should change the Bill of Rights to state this.
This is ridiculous. The only guarantee anyone in this country needs is the guarantee that you are living in the best country with the best opportunity to live any dream you have. If your utopia is government assisted living, there are plenty of countries in which people can experience this wonderful dream. It seems curious to me that most immigrants pass on your utopia gov’t assisted countries when they decide to take their families and leave everthing behind for a better life. I’m sure it won’t take long for you to figure out where they go. They don’t come here because we have a great SS system, they come here for the greatest opportunity in the world to make a decent living for their family without the government interfering.
I think you have lived here for too long and have forgotten what attracts people to this great country. Go to Europe and spend some significant time there. There is hardly a middle class society there. No one owns a home because the government owns everything and is nice enough to turn around and rent it to its citizens. They are taxed to the point of no disposable income. But for all they give up, they do get socialized healthcare.
This Hans guy is out of touch. I’m 28 with a wife and a daughter. I consider myself the youth. I may have been able to have been influenced by this crap when I was 18, but it didn’t long after college to see the light. Everything the gov’t touches, they make a mess of. Read the constitution if you haven’t yet. The reason the gov’t was created was to provide law and safety for its citizens. I don’t think you will find anything about social security, welfare, or anything of the like.
The only thing I could give the gov’t an A rating for is defending America.
Give it up Dream, this will never be Europe.
responsibleamerican et al. – (and yes, I would say that 90% of you are libertarians) when i get some time, i’ll come back and pick at your overly idealistic rhetoric and unfounded shrill cries of foul play.
real quickly though – why aren’t you spending your time attacking government subsidies in the the auto, agriculture, and aerospace industries (to name but a few) that effectively invalidate competition, innovation, and product quality? and the effects of NAFTA on a “free market”?
How about spending more of your time educating Americans about the dangers of credit card debt and the benefits of long-term savings? Once we’re a nation of savers rather than debtors perhaps then we can talk about radically changing the safety net of Social Security.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Galveston Plan? do your homework…
-there are serious portability problems
-lower income workers actually get less in benefits than they would with Social Security.
-AND it penalizes married workers.
-AND individuals do not control their investments, the American United Life Insurance Company controls their money.
-AND benefit buying power decreases with time
-etc, etc, etc
http://rider.wharton.upenn.edu/~prc/
PRC/WP/wp99-22.pdf
are my questions and concerns about the quality of our social fabric nonsense? i don’t think so, but i’ll let you decide for yourself.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
“The Economic Bill of Rights”
Excerpt from 11 January 1944 message to Congress on the State of the Union
It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.
This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.
As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.
We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.
Among these are:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.
All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.
America’s own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for our citizens.
Just some thoughts from an old man that would be more than willing to take a cut ( it ain’t gonna happen, there would be old white haired people rioting in the streets and throwing their walkers through store front windows) in SS in order to see my children and others in their age group(s) retire with more than the pittance I will receive from SS.
1- I have a female friend. She is a professor at a local university. She did not actually begin earning an income until 1975. She is exempt from SS. Never paid a dime iton it, will never get a dime from it. To date, she has put in slightly less in her 401k type state teachers retirement fund (IE the stock market mutual funds)than I have into SS. She gets to retire in 18 months with aproximately $4050.00 per month (before taxes). Even if she lives an extremely long time, she will still have a surplus to leave to her niece. I will have to work an additional 7 years, get aproximately $1600.00 per month before taxes, and, if I die before I retire, have nothing to leave to my children. Her niece can use that money as a down payment on a home, a car, college —whatever! My children will have to simply, do without. That is my fault.
2- However, if my children can now began a private account, in 30-40 years they will have a sum of money large enough to make whatever SS pays out seem like loose change. Plus, my grandchildren will have something to start their life with or, get a nice financial “kick” in their middle age.
3- I knew nothing about investing in 1995 when I started a 401K. My employer pitched in a measley 1/2% of my contribution up to the first 5% of mine. Roughly 2 1/2cents on the dollar In my case about $72.00 per year. After 5 years, I saw my investment grow to $33,000.00 dollars. Then, the recession began in July 2000 and I watched it fall and fall and fall. I got scared but didn’t know what to do because I don’t know anything about investing. It bottomed out at around $13,000.00 and then began rising. Keep in mind, over 5 years I put in roughly $12,000.00 dollars and never lost a cent of my own money. Right now it’s worth about $24,000.00. It keeps growing even though I only contributed for 5 years total. If I die right now, My kids get it. Not much, but better than a kick in the teeth. Of the thousands of dollars I have put in SS, if I die right now my kids get– squat!
4- I get to retire at 65, my children have to work until they are at least 67 and if certain politicians have their way (they have already bumped it to 67) you will work until you are 70.
5- I will not REALLY get to retire at 65 because I can’t live on $1600.00 (before taxes) per month. So, I will have to continue working or find a wealthy female with no taste in men. I am practicing my WAL MART greeter repetoire! Some retirement!
6- Black people, especially black men, have a tendency to die before white men, black women and especially white women. Everyone, I am sure, is well aware of the lack of wealth in the black community. What would happen if, say 15-20 years from now, young black people were finding out that dad or uncle or grandpa left them a couple grand, or ten grand or more? Some would squander it but some would invest it, some might buy a business or send their children to college or use the money to move to a nicer home or even buy their first home! As it stands, the majority of black men are working their rear ends off for some old white haired lady.
6- Somehow, it seems, people have come to the conclusion that rich Republicans want to get rid of SS. Let me clue you in. I know a lot of rich white Republicans– do you think they give a doodly squat about SS? To them, the money the government took from them for SS was water over the dam. The money they will receive from SS will be like pocket change! They have 0 interest in the outcome of this debate– absolutely 0!Thats how I want my kids to be, thats how I want every young person to be. Not living from SS check to SS check. Having to merely exist and pinch pennies, not be full of envy and hate and fear as they worry about paying bills and eating while their peers travel or buy new cars and actually enjoy their retirement.
7-The only anger I hope I will feel when I join that SS only group is that I wasn’t strong enough to save consistantly and that all that money I had to pay to SS would have been a lot more if I could have put it in mutual funds. I didn’t know when I was young that it was going to be barely enough to live a very meager life on. When I see AARP meetings on TV, who’s there? Greedy, scared, white haired old white ladies unwilling to risk a penny to give their grandchildren a better chance at a better life in retirement. I feel sorry for them. I call them greedy but they are alone, scared and from an age when they didn’t have to make any decisions. The husband did all of that. He’s gone and they feel cornered. That’s what you are seeing. No different than an animal cornered by a group of people trying to save it! Like you might see on ANIMAL PLANET.
8- Lastly, look at who is opposing this. The same people that cheered for it when Bill Clinton proposed virtually the same thing. He never brought it up again. (unfortunately. When Newt Gingrich brought it up, he was tarred and featherd! And ask yourself, why do they oppose it? These are the same folks that every election, like clockwork, a few days before the election, begin shouting that Republicans want to cut SS and starve old people. What can they say if it’s your money that you have and they can’t touch it, spend it on their stupid projects or scare you when you get old by saying the opposition will reduce that money? I can count back now, to Lyndon Johnson with a good memory. They did it then, they did it in 2004, they have done it every election. My much older siister has voted for them every time and firmly believes the tired old campaign rhetoric. Everytime a Republican gets elected she talks about how she will probably have to sell her house and live with one of her daughters because she can’t afford to pay her property taxes when they cut her SS. News flash. The only cut she ever got was when Bill Clinton raised taxes on SS. Why the hell are they taxing SS anyway? She still believes it to this very day though! But she still lives in her house.
Now is not the time for a young person to really think about retirement– well they should but, I didn’t and, I doubt all but the most nerdly will. But, like SS, you don’t have to think about it. If it happens, you will be packing money away in a ultra low risk account that has your name on it. It will come out of your check just like SS does now. No, you can’t take it out, no, you can’t borrow it. It just keeps slowly growing and growing. Sometimes, it might drop but it will go back up and up and up. If it ever dropped, and dropped and dropped– the last thing on your mind would be that money. If it did happen, you wouldn’t get SS or anything. The USA would have ceased to exist.
On the other hand, if this is more about hating the current administration than getting behind a good idea– I suggest you go out, buy a gun and proceed to shoot yourself — in the foot.
wozerd
“why aren’t you spending your time attacking government subsidies in the the auto, agriculture, and aerospace industries (to name but a few) that effectively invalidate competition, innovation, and product quality? and the effects of NAFTA on a “free market”?
How about spending more of your time educating Americans about the dangers of credit card debt and the benefits of long-term savings?”
Doing all that, too. Next question?
Great answer Dream. Post someone else’s speech. By the way, its not law, and its not the Bill of Rights.
Sorry, still can’t remove your lips from FDR’s a#%. If FDR did have his way with his social agenda, this country would be a lot more socialistic.
One thing that you and your liberal friends can’t understand is that there is not enough money on this planet to remove poverty from this country or any country for that matter. There are too many people who just don’t care about their future no matter what you do for them. Since the beginning of this so called war on poverty, the percentage of people in your description of poverty has NOT changed. Not changed. Why? We’re spending a lot more money. We have passed many programs. There are paying jobs available. What’s the problem?
Answer: Human nature. There will always be a percentage of society who doesn’t pull their weight for various reasons no matter what you bleeding heart liberals take from the hard working and give to them.
Your democrat hero Bill Mahr said it right, “Our homeless aren’t starving, their fat.”
This is for the “cool kids”. Read about Galveston’s Privatization plan and its guaranteed benefits. Trust me, its pretty “cool”.
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A model for Social Security reform
A case study already exists in Galveston County, Texas — and might offer some lessons for lawmakers in Washington.
By Ray Holbrook with Alcestis “Cooky” Oberg
The current debate about reforming Social Security reminds me of the discussions that occurred in Galveston County, Texas, in 1980, when our county workers were offered a different, and better, retirement alternative to Social Security: They reacted with keen interest and some knee-jerk fear of the unknown. But after 24 years, folks here can say unequivocally that when Galveston County pulled out of the Social Security system in 1981, we were on the road to providing our workers with a better deal than Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal.
When I was county judge in 1979, many county workers were concerned about the soundness of Social Security, as many people are today. We could either stay with it — and its inevitable tax increases and higher retirement ages — or find a better way. We sought an “alternative plan” that provided the same or better benefits, required no tax increases and was risk-free. Furthermore, we wanted the benefits to be like a savings account that could be passed on to family members upon death.
Our plan, put together by financial experts, was a “banking model” rather than an “investment model.” To eliminate the risks of the up-and-down stock market, workers’ contributions were put into conservative fixed-rate guaranteed annuities, rather than fluctuating stocks, bonds or mutual funds. Our results have been impressive: We’ve averaged about 6.5% annual rate of return over 24 years. And we’ve provided substantially better benefits in all three Social Security categories: retirement, survivorship, disability.
Upon retirement after 30 years, and assuming a more conservative 5% rate of return, all workers would do better for the same contribution as Social Security:
•Workers making $17,000 a year are expected to receive about 50% more per month on our alternative plan than on Social Security — $1,036 instead of $683.
•Workers making $26,000 a year will make almost double Social Security, $1,500 instead of $853.
•Workers making $51,000 a year will get $3,103 instead of $1,368.
•Workers making $75,000 or more will nearly triple Social Security, $4,540 instead of $1,645.
•Our survivorship benefits pay four times a worker’s annual salary — a minimum of $75,000 to a maximum $215,000 — rather than Social Security’s customary onetime $255 survivorship to a spouse (with no minor children). If the worker dies before retirement, the survivors receive not only the full survivorship but get generous accidental death benefits, too.
•Our disability benefit pays 60% of an individual’s salary, better than Social Security’s.
In 1980, labor unions and some traditionally liberal Democrats provided mighty opposition. They considered taxpayer-fed Big Government programs the only secure ones, to the exclusion of other options. However, we held meetings that included debates with Social Security officials and put it to a vote: Our workers passed it by a 3-to-1 margin in 1981 — just in time.
We got our plan in place before the U.S. Congress passed a “reform” bill in 1983 that closed the door for local governments to opt out of Social Security.
To be sure, our plan wasn’t perfect, and we’ve had to make some adjustments. For instance, a few of our retired county workers are critical of the plan today because they say they are making less money than they would have on Social Security. This is because our plan allowed workers to make “hardship” withdrawals from the retirement plan during their working years. Some workers withdrew funds for current financial problems and consequently robbed their own future benefits. We closed that option down in January 2005.
Congress might consider making participation in any privatization plan voluntary at first. We made our plan voluntary in the beginning, and 70% joined. It later became mandatory. Now, there is full participation. Also, if there were some residual uncertainty about privatizing a portion of worker contributions, a plan could be devised in which low-income earners would be guaranteed the same funds they would get with total participation in Social Security.
Our experience has shown that even low-income workers would do better, but a guarantee would ease their worries. Moderate- and higher-income workers would do much better, as ours do, because they have invested more in the plan and are not prejudicially punished or “topped out” on retirement benefits, as they are in Social Security.
In today’s debate about whether to partially privatize Social Security, the Galveston County plan is sometimes demagogued. But our experience should be judged factually and fairly, not emotionally, politically or on the basis of hearsay. We sought a secure, risk-free alternative to the Social Security system, and it has worked very well for nearly a quarter-century. Our retirees have prospered, and our working people have had the security of generous disability and accidental death benefits.
Most important, we didn’t force our children and grandchildren to be unduly taxed and burdened for our retirement care while these fine young people are struggling to raise and provide for their own families.
What has been good for Galveston County may, indeed, be good for this country.
Judge Ray Holbrook was Galveston County judge from 1967 to 1995, and oversaw the creation and administration of the Galveston County alternative plan. Alcestis “Cooky” Oberg is on USA TODAY’s board of contributors.